Thursday, October 6, 2011
Human Resources
Which teacher would you rather hire: a teacher who will most likely be moderately effective in the classroom, but is likely to follow school rules and not create any waves on your staff, or a teacher who will most likely be highly effective in the classroom, but is likely to be a controversial and "difficult" person to work with? Why?
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25 comments:
Yeah! I'm the first poster!!! I have reclaimed my place on the blog! :)
Seriously, I’ve worked with both types of teachers and have helped supervise, in different capacities (i.e., Real Estate Transaction Manager, University Recruiting & Marketing Director and EC Program Coordinator), both types of employees. In terms of bottom line achievement, I would say the latter teacher is who I would choose because I think even difficult people can be handled if you find out what motivates them and can frame things according to their level of motivation. It may take more patience, but if the end product is better, I think it is worth the frustration.
A potential challenge I do see with choosing the more “difficult” person is the inevitable staff conflicts that also may occur that I as a leader have to anticipate. I guess this is where my cost analysis would come in - is the margin of higher achievement worth the costs associated with the frustrations of the difficult employee?
On a different note, if you’re asking which would I personally rather hire, bottom line achievement aside, of course I would want to work with someone who is compliant and easy to get along with!
Becky, I had my post ready but wanted to let you be first! :)
Studies show that highly effective teachers make a bigger difference in education than other factors, so I would pick the highly effective teacher. The main focus of schools needs to be on what is best for the students, not who is easiest to work with. Too many times decisions are made at schools based on what is “best” (read “easiest”) for teachers instead. I would much rather see a renegade teacher who makes a difference teaching children—even if I am the one who has to be the peacemaker in the building (or community).
It would seem to me that one would be lowering his/her standards if he/she purposely chose a “moderately effective” teacher. That would be like deciding to go to a moderately effective surgeon for a major operation because he/she is friendly, instead of the highly effective one with a nasty bedside manner. Really!?! Give me the one who knows what he/she is doing and does it well!!!!
I realize that some will argue that the moderately effective teacher can improve, but I would argue that you could also assume that the difficult teacher can tone down and learn to get along better with others.
You two are sad! I have worked with both types of teachers and have found that the more effective instructor is the better choice. We made her the head of our "Sunshine Committee" for the faculty and it actually changed her demeanor. As Rebecca mentioned IN THE FIRST POSTING, everyone has that need to belong and you can find a way in to most people and bring them around. There may be argument for the first choice in that there is room to grow and become more effective and she is pliable for that learning, but when student learning is the bottom line, I'd go with the more effective instructor. It would be more challenging at first, but I could place the person with a mentor that is a good match for that type of person, a faculty leader, and have that person show her the ropes.
This is a tough one. Highly effective teaching is the optimal goal of any educator and the true desire of any administrator (I would hope). However, cooperative behavior, a positive demeanor, and a dedicated team spirit will employ a positive work and educational environment. In turn, this will set the culture of the school. I am fearful of hiring an individual that has no regard for authority, policy, and procedure. While this person maybe highly effective in the classroom, they are not modeling appropriate professional behavior for the students or fellow staff. In addition, their unpredictable behavior is also a liability for the school. I cannot trust this individual’s judgment regarding student care, instruction, or adherence to district/state mandates, as they are not personally bound by the same ethical and procedural obligations that govern this profession and the school. This can lead to a great diminish to effective school morale.
I would hire the teacher that will be moderately effective in the classroom but will follow the rules and the regulations that govern this profession. However, I would require continual education for this teacher and support him/her with finding the tools necessary to become more effective with students. With the teacher's roots in compliance and desire to perform, I would frame these professional development opportunities in such a way that they will feel empowered and capable of fine tuning their craft and skill. I am a firm believer that you have to meet people where they are. It is difficult to do that with a controversial person who typically doesn't recognize personal faults or yields to assistance and support. I believe that this moderately effective teacher can and will become a highly effective teacher with adequate and accurate supports in place, as a result of their willing and dedicated attitude.
I most certainly would hire the highly effective difficult one....that is me! (Takiyah stop laughing!)
In order to become a highly effective teacher you must devote a lot of time and energy in perfecting your craft of teaching. You also spend a lot of time learning how to identify and respond to all types of children needs. Once you have devoted that kind of time to your profession, you do not respond well when someone tells you to do something that goes against best practices.
I have never attempted to disrupt the whole staff because of my beliefs. I have now worked under two administrators and I think both of them would characterize me as respectful.
I believe that as an administrator, I could help a passionate boat rocker learn how to take a stand on something they believed in with respect to themselves and others.
I would choose the "difficult" teacher, because student achievement is first. I think it is important to keep student achievement first because after all that is what we are here to do, educate our youth. Different situations tend to bring about different reactions from people and this teacher may have been in a school where he/she did not like the school culture.
I think it is also good to note that difficult people can sometimes bring on challenges the team can benefit from. It's good to have someone who is always thinking about the other side to challenge members of the team to make the team much stronger.
I would agree with Felicia and develop a working relationship with the "boat rocker" and coach them on how to question the way we do things in a respectful manner.
I don't think I could answer this question with a blanket teacher A or teacher B. There are very important questions to ask first. What will this teacher teach (tested or non-tested, elective or required)? What is the school climate? Does "'difficult' person to work with" mean they don't play well with others or just the administration? The answers to these questions, as well as the different combination of answers, would determine whom I would hire.
For example, if the faculty was already "at war" with the administration or each other and the teacher doesn't work well with principals or other teachers, I wouldn't hire them even if he or she highly effective. A teacher who is going to add gas to an already dysfunctional "fire" will not help the school as a whole be successful. However, if the staff is already a cohesive, positive unit, one "me-against-the-administration" teacher is okay. If you are hiring a teacher for an area of high need, such as teaching EC or working with historically marginalized students, then it's worth it to take the personality hit to get a teacher who can help to close the achievement gap.
Again, I think this is a situational answer. One bad-attitude apple can rot the bunch, even if that apple is effective in his or her classroom.
In making this decision I had to ask myself what each teacher’s strengths are, as well as where each teacher had room for growth. Clearly, the moderately effective teacher could improve his or her instruction, and given the description of a “rule follower,” would likely easily agree to suggestions and extra professional development. The “difficult” teacher however, would benefit the most from growth in “people skills.” Given the description, however, this may be a challenge, and it’s not as easy to reform a person’s personality as it is to teach them about effective instruction.
All this being said, while it’d be much easier (and more comfortable) to hire the person that’d be easy to work with, as educational leaders I think we must keep in mind that we are running a school in order to provide the absolute best education we possibly can for the children. For this reason, I think I would have to hire the difficult teacher, be happy with the quality of instruction our school’s students are receiving, and work my butt off to form a good relationship with the teacher so that I can mediate other potentially contentious relationships he or she might form.
I agree with Rob that this selection of the teacher is situational to the needs of your school and the emphasis you are placing on the year, however, if forced to choose, I would select the difficult teacher who is difficult to work with.
With teaching, it is easy to see cliques formed and teachers falling into ruts that are difficult to get out of. With these cliques, change is very rarely made due to a "group think" mentality where no one wants to hurt the other members feelings and eventually begin agreeing about everything and nothing constructive really gets done and with that, there is no change. With a teacher who is effective and may be difficult to work with, you may lose this idea of grouping. This teacher knows what works and seems to stay firm on their beliefs, regardless of the feet they are potentially stepping on.
I liked the idea of making the teacher head of the sunshine committee in case of the first idea above. This puts the teacher in a position to go outside their comfort zone and mesh with the group in a way that is personal and not one that will water down their effectiveness in the classroom.
As administrators, we have to answer the following question:
Is the teacher difficult to work with because of their personality or because they see the potential holes in a situation and understand that they need to be addressed?
Congrats Becky!! Now stop being so compliant, you may not be hired by this group!!! I agree with most everyone's sentiments on both teachers. From my perspective, you would have to also think about the school community. A bad apple can ruin a bunch and school culture is delicate and impressionable. If the average teacher is exceptional in creating a positive experience for students (i.e. club advisor, coach, before/after school tutorials) then I believe that compensates for the average achievement in the classroom. Intangibles are difficult to define and teach. So you have to weigh which intangibles are more critical to your school needs. Outside or inside the classroom? I am a believer that it is easier to transform somebody who is compliant versus somebody who is difficult. I will agree most with Rob and stay square on the fence by saying there is a lot more information I would need to know before making a decision. Thus, I am open to hiring either or.
I don’t know what it means for a teacher to follow school rules. Are we talking showing up to school on time, taking attendance, going to staff meetings, posting grades, etc. If a teacher fails to handle his responsibilities, he will probably lose his job. A teacher who likes to rock the boat and challenge authority is different than a negligent teacher. In the case of it being an effective “rebel” teacher versus a moderately effective teacher, I would take the “rebel.”
In the end it comes down to what is the purpose of school. I think the role of education is to prepare students to become successful and productive as adults. An effective teacher will find a way to prepare students. With initiatives and programs constantly being added or subtracted in schools, it’s expected for a teacher to question things and rock the boat a little. A teacher who questions authority is more of a free thinker, and free thinkers tend to be better problem solvers. On the other hand a teacher who goes along with everything tends to struggle more when faced with unexpected obstacles.
As much as I think I know everything, I understand this is not the case. One of the ways I am going to grow as an administrator is to have meaningful dialogue with staff. If everything I said was taken as fact, I would never learn anything. So I’ll take the “rebel” teacher who is an effective teacher and pushes me to become a better administrator.
As always, I see many points that I agree with in the individual responses. I tend to agree with Rob. It would depend on the context. For example, if the school year has started and I'm desparate for a body I would hire the one who can start right away. Other relevant factors for me are: is it a tested area, what is the status of my school, and how much time I have to develop the employee. As for the highly effective teacher, I need more information. If the person is a liability risk or someone who would destroy the climate of my school, I would not hire the highly effective person. My personal belief is: if its ethical, legal, and in the best interest of children, let's do it! So again, it depends on what is difficult about working with the highly effective teacher. I would make my final decision based on which applicant is coachable. If the applicant has the basic skills, common sense, and good judgment I think it is worth the effort to take the time to develop the moderately effective teacher into an highly effective teacher or the difficult teacher into a team player. Either way you will have to spend time developing the person --either resolving the conflicts generated by the troublesome teacher that is highly effectively or helping the moderate teacher to become highly effective. On any given day, I would rather have a moderate employee that is coachable and able to support the vision of the organization.
I think this is somewhat of a loaded question. Many of us who are poised to be in leadership positions in the near future, were probably high effective classroom teachers ourselves. In fact, whether we would ever admit it or not, some of us may have also been considered by our own school leadership to have been difficult ourselves. That said, a multitude of factors can (and should) play into the decision making process.
For starters, where is this "new hire" going to land? Is it on a team that already struggles with strong personalities, or a grade level that goes "rouge" often? And what is the culture of the school like? Is it a place that would be described as collaborative and goal focused? Or is it a place where everyone does their own thing, regardless of what the attempted common vision might be? And how would this new hire work with the Assistant Principal assigned to that grade level? Would it be a good fit for either of them?
The easy answer is saying that as a new Principal I would hire the "difficult, highly effective" teacher over the other candidate. However, reality tells me that taking over a school also means taking over the problems left behind by previous leadership. I doubt, in my first few years on the job, I would want to add to the "difficulty"...So I'll go rogue and hire the teacher who cooperates and work with them to become more effective as time goes on.
I would hire the teacher who is highly effective in the classroom, but is likely to be a controversial or “difficult” person to work with because student achievement is my number one priority. Sure it would make my life easier if everyone I worked with did what I wanted them to do all the time and followed all of the rules, but there are times when I am not right and every rule is not always a good rule. For example, segregation was a rule or law that was not right, but many, who thought it was wrong, still followed the rule. Many people were hurt and killed because some people were scared to break the rule. What would have happed if Martin Luther King would have kept following the “rules?” I know segregation is an extreme example, but it is a case when rules are made to be broken. Everything is not always black and white, therefore there may be situations or circumstances where I have to bend or break a rule to help a student and I would feel better about someone who is focused on helping students instead of following some rule.
I do understand that rules are important and sometimes people are “difficult” in a bad way and as an administrator I will have to figure out how to handle difficult people. I will have to work with a diverse group of people (staff, students, central office, etc.) and trials are what make you strong and helps you grow. I would rather defend a “difficult” person who is getting the job done in the classroom instead of a nice person who is not teaching our youth anything. This reminds me of the television show House. Dr. House is very controversial and never follows the rules, but he usually does what he does to help save a life and isn’t that what it should be about, saving a life.
I will say this in closing. I think most of us will make the choice I made (It is the politically correct thing to say), but this question is actually tougher than it looks. We have all seen or worked with teachers who are the nice but we all know they have no business teaching kids yet they are still teaching. Sure it is real hard to get rid of teachers, but the real reason that person is still teaching is because they are nice and we hate to do that to “such a nice person.” We spare one for the sake of many, but nice people can be in the wrong job.
Yeah, Charlie Sheen is a great actor, but is anyone trying to hire him right now? Someone probably is, but I don't know if I would. I think the same goes for teachers: there are some teachers who are really talented but
When we talk about a "difficult" person to work with, I want to know what specific behaviors that teacher exhibits that have caused problems. Some behaviors would be non-negotiables (e.g. openly disrespectful to staff members, frequently late to work). Some would be more acceptable, especially if the teacher was really talented (e.g. socially awkward, overly political with colleagues). Probably a good argument here for following up with past supervisors and references.
I would hire the more "controversial and difficult" teacher every day of the week and twice on Sundays, as the saying goes. The #1 priority in all hiring decisions, in my opinion, has to center around teacher effectiveness. The reason: it's much easier to get someone to follow rules than it is to get them to be more effective in the classroom.
I also believe that having controversial teachers around who are perceived as (or are) difficult can do positive things for the other teachers in the building. Whether other teachers agree with the "radical" or not, they will be forced to be reflective of their own practices in comparison to drastically different methodology. Even if this leads to little substantive change in behaviors of others teachers, there will still be small tidbits that the teachers will pick up and use, to the betterment of the students in their classrooms.
I would definitely hire the teacher who is highly effective, but difficult to work with. However, it depends on how we look at the word difficult. For example, a teacher who is difficult because he/she does not get his/her way is a major headache. He/she is also immature. On the other hand, a teacher who is difficult because he/she challenges inequitable practices in a school is a great asset.
Often times, we are afraid of what we perceive to be difficult/challenging people, because we live in a society that encourages us to speak politically correct.
During my teaching years, I was branded as the effective, but difficult teacher, simply because I had no problem challenging inequitable practices in the school. After about 4 years, my colleagues saw that my being difficult was because I cared deeply about the educational outcomes of all students.
Schools need teachers who do not always conform, but who might be a tad bit challenging. As a principal,I want effective teachers, but teachers who can think outside of the box and not be afraid to be controversial on the right issues.
I have learned that true change without a confrontation is a myth.
On the opposite end of the spectrum from Rebbecca.... right back at the bottom where no one else is likely to see my comments.
Too many times I think it is easy for idealistic Holier-than-thou pre-practitioners to say "Of course I would hire the Highly Effective teacher...instruction first, empathy, best practices, sunshine, love of learning blah blah blah". Sounds good. Until you have to make a real decision that will have real consequences.
I value instructional proficiency and recognize the connection to student achievement as much as anybody. But be real... No one wants to work with a difficult person, and like many others have said, "one bad apple can spoil the bunch". How would you expect your teachers to PLC with someone they simply will not get along with? As a principal, why would you create an environment in which you are going to be constantly required to defend this person's behavior after every "episode" this teacher will inevitably be involved in. And if you don't "fix" this teacher's behavior, your staff will assume to condone hostility (Thanks Dr. Schainker- symbolic leadership).
I look at it like this... It is very likely a great group of teachers will be able to support and "improve" a struggling, but congenial teacher. A great group of teachers is likely to be soured by one highly effective uncivil confrontational a-hole.
An effective staff can "fix" mediocre practices. Personality deficiencies are usually much deeply ingrained and more difficult to address.
As many people have said, it is difficult to answer this question without more specifics about the teacher and the school. However, when forced to choose, I would have to pick the moderately effective teacher who is more pleasant to work with. When I think about my goals as an educational leader, I feel that the ability to collaborate and a willingness to grow are two of the most important traits for a teacher to have. The description of the more effective teacher gives the impression that she would not be willing to collaborate with the others on her team. She also may not be as open to reflecting on her practice and growing. Of course, as others have said, I would have to be sure to closely monitor the new teacher and provide her with opportunities to grow and learn.
This is a difficult decision. I'd like to think that I'm a student advocate; so I would choose the person that his highly effective, and try to work with his/her "people skills." However, an noncontroversial staff is a good thing. Kids pick up on when teachers don't get along; some will use that to their advantage. Students benefit from a cohesive team. So I think I would choose the moderately effective staff and provide them with resources and strategies to be more effective. In fact, I could turn it into a staff development opportunity and reach more teachers. It's hard to work with a person's people skills. It's easier to change the behavior of someone then the attitude. While I think changing the attitude is more effective, changing the behavior is more tangible and can have better results.
So, maybe I'm not reading enough into this, but in both scenarios, we are only told what is LIKELY to happen, and there is no evidence given as to why... is it based on the teacher's previous experience, something that happened in the interview, what?
The teacher who is likely to be moderately effective may actually be highly effective in a new environment with a supportive PLT, a different administrator, a fresh start, etc. The teacher who is likely to be highly effective might not actually be a great fit and/or they have been previously seen as controversial or difficult for reasons that no longer apply at a new school (i.e. personality conflicts with individual people, disagreements with policies or decisions that are not in place at the new school).
The answer for me, as others have said, would be entirely situational. Does the school have a PLT that could support and foster the growth of this individual and does this individual seem open to such a thing? What exactly is moderate? Can the staff handle the weight of someone who may or may not be consistently causing controversy? What type of controversy are talking about - demanding prime planning periods or bugging people silly about the need for after school tutoring (some people might call both being "difficult"). Is the teacher responsible for team teaching or pretty much on their own?
Yes, students' achievement is the ultimate goal. On the other hand, if the teacher is, for example, on a team, and is continually causing issues among the other teachers, that can have a truly negative impact on the students not just in one class, but in the classes of all the teachers on the team.
In an ideal world, we would have more information to make such an important decision. I have had experience sitting in interviews with my former principal and assisting her with a hiring decision. She always chose the teacher who would be the best fit for the team. If she felt a teacher would come in an upset the apple cart in a negative way, then the teacher wasn’t hired. On the other hand, if a teacher could come in and be a good fit with the team and school, then the teacher was hired. Sometimes she would hire strong personalities if she felt it would benefit the team and students. If I had to make the decision my gut says to hire the mediocre, rule-following teacher. It is this type of teacher who most likely with support can improve teaching practices and can learn from the strong teachers at the school. The highly effective teacher sounds like she would be a thorn in everybody’s side and could potentially create a hostile work environment for those around her.
As Schainker would say, “it all depends.” I believe a new hire is about finding the right fit. As I look back at my own experiences I like to think I was always effective, but I believe I was most successful and effective in schools that were the right fit for me. Collaborating with teammates, finding times to challenge and be challenged, and working to do what is best for students all happen when a person finds the right fit. Some teams will need a “difficult” person to challenge the status quo. Some teams may need someone who will gladly try others ideas. As an administrator I want to hire the person that compliments the strengths and challenges of those around them. I have witnessed very effective teams lose focus and efficacy because a new hire drained so much energy from the team outside of the classroom. I have witnessed teams excel because a “rebel rouser” challenged them to step up their instructional practices. I don’t want my hire to negatively impact the effectiveness of teachers around them. I want the teacher that will positively impact the teachers around them. Sometimes that will definitely be the difficult but effective one, and sometimes that will be the compliant but moderately effective one. If it’s the right fit, the hire will excel further than originally expected.
On a somewhat tangential point… While the administrator has the final say, I think you include the affected team in the interview process. Both the candidate and team will benefit from this experience and teachers can be very helpful in determining “fit” for the team and the school. Additionally, it’s always important to remember that even in rough economic times an interview is two sided. If the candidates are smart, they are looking for the right fit too.
This is a tough question. As many of you have said, there are some questions that need to be answered before being able to make the best decision. At first thought, I would definitely hire the “controversial” teacher. I would prefer to have someone who does what is necessary to help students be successful. In every walk of life we come across people who are controversial in some way. If the controversy is not something that is detrimental to students and the overall morale of the school, I think I would be able to work with the person.
I have had the privilege of working with someone who was nice and pretty much a rule follower. She would do whatever I asked of her to the best of her ability. Her ability was VERY limited and therefore I could not ask her to do much. I tried different strategies and techniques to help her be more effective, but they did not work. After working with her for three years, I requested she be moved. It wasn’t because I didn’t like her, but she was ineffective. She was not very helpful to me or the students.
I think it boils down to what is most beneficial for the students. If the level of difficulty is manageable then I am willing to hire someone I know and believe will bring out the best in the students. I would also be working to establish a trusting relationship with the new teacher. When people learn who you are and know your expectations, they are more likely to follow your lead. I think it depends on who you are as a leader. But I also understand that some people will be difficult just for the sake of being difficult. That’s when you have to kill them with kindness or kindly show them the door.
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