"The real strength in using a data driven decision making process for school improvement is that numbers are objective. The data just don't lie."
Do you agree or disagree with the statement above? Why?
28 comments:
Thomas
said...
I agree that data is a real strength in the decision making process of a school's decisions. As mentioned: "the data just don't lie."
I can see this being the biggest aid for a principal when dealing with a staff that is "stuck" in their old ways and is resistant to change, or even the staff of a good school that does not feel that it needs to change. LIke you said in class Dr. Graham, you noticed there was a discrepancy in the science grading that the teachers did not believe was there. After you showed them the data, it was fairly simple for them to see and you were able to pull them on board with the changes that needed to be made. I am not saying it is the cure all for each and every decision that is made, but it definitely helps put things in perspective.
Dr. Veitch also has been instructing us that we should use data when evaluating teachers due to the fact that it cannot be argued. It is a measurable system that takes the emotion out of the evaluation and does not create a situation where it looks like the principal is out to get the teacher.
As an administrator working with a younger staff, it is good to show them data to drive the instruction they are teaching. If you can show these teachers where to find the data and also how to use the data, it could save you time later when you are working through a conference and you can both, knowledgeably, look at the data.
This is somewhat similar to the statement "Figures don't lie, but liars figure." It is my belief that too many educational decisions are based on data and not common sense anymore. Data can be used to support or defend any position thereby making it less influential, in my opinion.
That said, data should be part of the decision making process, but by no means should it hold all of the weight. If our traditional methods of data collection actually communicated fair and diverse information, then we would not be having this discussion. However, we sometimes use data to support initiatives that do nothing to enhance student learning and everything to justify central office jobs. I support common sense...the missing piece of educational data.
While data is a great strength in the decision making process, it cannot be 100% accurate and representative. Research is conducted to give a snap shot of what is going on and what a reasonable prediction could be about a particular matter. With that said, data can be manipulated, which simply means it can lie. I think that data should be a large part of the decision making process. However, I do not think that is should be the only factor. It is important to review the context around a subject, the end goal, strengths and weakness of the current action plan, and key players needed to execute the end goal. Thus, in conjunction with data, all of these components should have equal weight in the decision making process.
I strongly disagree with this statement. I think the data can lie. Well, let me rephrase that. The data is what it is, but the interpretation/presentation of the data comes from the data’s users and may be misconstrued. In other words, the data may be what it is, but the message of the data is conveyed through the lens of the person using the data and that person is most likely operating off an agenda to which they have made the data align.
I’m not sure about anyone else, but I can speak from my own experience and attest to the fact that data can be used to say a lot of things. Often if we’re looking to make a point, we can find data to support our point. So, while I think there is value in having data to make decisions, I also think it is wise not just to accept it at face value. We need to mine the data and consider the presenter’s possible slant(s) as we make decisions based on what is presented to us.
There is real strength in using data to encourage (or demand) change. Data does not lie. A 4% passing rate at a school is a 4% passing rate no matter which way you turn your paper to look at it. The advantage to using data is that you can interpret that 4% passing rate to mean whatever you want. I think that 4% passing rate means we need to pay teachers more so that they will feel more appreciated and therefore work harder at educating children...? I think that 4% passing rate means we should close that school and relocate those students to the surrounding schools (which presumably have higher passing rates)... I think that 4% passing rate means the test needs to be revamped... I think the 4% passing rate means we should fire all the teachers in the school and hire new ones... I think that the 4% passing rate means we should give each classroom a reading intervention specialist and a math intervention specialist... I mean, really, I'm not sure how many more things I could make up that that 4% passing rate mean or should indicate or should lead to, but I could probably go on for a while. That is what gives using data such strength - you can use it however you want and the data will still support it.
Similar to what has been by Andrea, Katrina, Rebecca and Kelly have said, my answer is both agree and disagree. Decisions can and should be data driven. Without data, how can you define what your goal is? How do you know that you have reached your goal? Again, as Thomas and Dr. Veitch have pointed out, data can and should be used to identify and quantify a problem and the extent to which the problem is making an impact. It is often hard to argue with the data, especially when both parties agree to what the data represent. And that brings us to the sticky point. . .
As we know, data can be manipulated. Studies have shown that 90% of data used in 50% of the studies are 85% unreliable. What studies? Who collected the data? For how long was the data collected? And is 90% of 50% of 90% really 41% or did I just make that up? . . . . . Okay, I did just make that up, but you get the point. We like to use data that agrees with our vision, and sometimes, that means the user is dishonest even if the data are not.
I agree with Katrina and support her comment "While data is a great strength in the decision making process, it cannot be 100% accurate and representative."
I believe data has its place in education but it should not be the determining factor when making decisions. Data comes in all forms and conversing with individuals to gather information is yet another way we can collect data and it should also be a factor in making decisions.
Example: A teacher is in a tested subject and is a great teacher. She uses hands-on instruction, facilitates learning and students are producing products in the class that requires them to think and think outside the box. However, she doesn't focus on the test her students are required to take at the end of the year. The data would make one believe that she should not be teaching, but by doing observations and seeing the good work it would be beneficial for her to move to a non-tested subject and create the same learning experience for other students.
I say all that to say data is not the end all be all. It should be a piece of information we use to make decisions that impact student achievement. To me this also applies to Andrea's comment and the idea that we as leaders should use more common sense when making decisions.
Data has become the basis for almost if not every decision made in a school. Does data lie? No. The numbers are what they are. If you want the data to support an idea it can work for you. If you want data to discount an idea it can work for you. I feel it is the interpretation and presentation of numeric information. It is the interpretation of those numbers that can lead to misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the data. Dr. Schainker gave a great example in class the other night. Suppose you have 6 middle schools in a district and the 6th school has the lowest student achievement scores – you might automatically think this school needs help, but when you look at the data, you find 94% of students are achieving on or above grade level. Here is a prime example of how the presentation of data can lead to misunderstanding. School leaders must be aware of the context in which the data is being presented. School leaders need to consider the context, school need, and end goals when using data to drive decision making.
I think that while data doesn't lie, the context with which data are explained can certainly be misleading. Just like two people can look at the same event and tell different stories, the meaning of data that is presented can be deciphered in a number of different ways.
Although data can at times be used and interpreted to validate harmful decisions, data driven decision-making is going to be essential as we aim to improve our schools. The reason: we just can't afford to begin and continue doing things that simply "sound good" anymore. With budgets being scaled down and class sizes going up, the margin for error is shrinking and the consequences of waste are more profound.
We need to make decisions that our data suggest will work. Even more so, we need to have a way to measure the effectiveness of our decisions, so that we know that they did work.
Yay, my first chance to go toe to toe with Andrea (I'm sure this is just the first in many as we move to rule the world)! When using the phrase common sense, just remember that what is common to you may not be common to someone else, thus making sense to you and not them. Make sense!?! ;) I think you would leave a lot of people scratching their heads if you based your school initiatives on common sense. I agree with Caroline that the data may be presented in misleading ways, which may favorably support some back door agenda. I'm sorry to play the skeptic, but I think too many leaders use data to prove a point opposed to directing discussions. In my experience with data presentations, they usually fail to describe the sample population and sample size, as well as contributing factors that may limit the results. 50% of hispanic students are not proficient on the geometry eoc. Does 50% mean more or less to you if there were 2 students in the sample then if there were 100 students? And what if I told you that out of the two Hispanic students one of their mothers was in the hospital the night before the test and when she retook the test she made a 4. So, I will take the stance that data is important when used appropriately.
I agree that data do not lie. However, data can—and are—often presented in a misleading way. The advertisement business relies on this. Facts/data are slanted to the view that puts their product in the best light. In the same way, schools do this. Schools use data in whatever way puts them in the best light; unless they want to show growth, when they may present (read: “manipulate”) the data in a different way to be able to show growth.
Katrina’s point of the data being a snapshot is a great point. I know that many of my students’ EOG scores were not true representations of what they knew. Many students could not make that transition from the learning environment of the classroom to the rigid environment of the testing room (no matter how hard I tried to reassure them and make it comfortable). So that snapshot was not really accurate. The data may not be a lie, but it certainly is not always a representation of the reality.
We need to try to look at the data in a more informed way…I hate when principals compare one year’s group scores to the next to show growth. That’s absurd! Instead, we need to look at the same group’s results as it progresses through the grades. THAT data shows growth (or lack of growth).
Bottom line: we do need to use data, but we need to be smart consumers when looking at the data.
I think this is true, but we have to be cautious about our interpretation of these numbers. I think one of the articles we read this week said it best, when it mentioned that some tests only capture what we know at that moment. I may study hard for a math test and remember everything I need to know for that test, take the test, and then promptly forget everything once the test is over. Does that mean I learned the material or just memorized it for that moment? Also, things like sickness, family problems, etc. can affect test scores. Data can be objective, but we can be very subjective. Also, we have to make sure we are not basing decisions off of one score. If we are going to use data to make decisions about what we teach students then that data needs to be continuous. We can’t just look at an EOG or EOC test and say a child does or does not know something, because those test are summative. Teachers can assess students daily, weekly, or monthly quickly analyze that data and then provide timely feedback to the student and that is when data driven decisions become effective. Student are not the only ones who are subjective but so are teachers. I am not referring to their moods as much as I am referring to their abilities. Some teachers are ineffective in teaching material. We do have bad teachers, therefore a child can only test on what they know and if a teacher has done a poor job instructing them, then this may be reflected in the data. Data does not lie, but it can paint a skewed picture based on who, when, and how we analyze everything.
I agree with most of the people who have already posted. It is true that the data don’t lie, but it is the way we interpret them that can be different. I love the way Andrea said it- “Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.” I think we can each interpret data in a way that works for us. I feel that in this world of “data-driven” instruction, we also tend to limit what data we look at so that we can form the picture or solution we are most comfortable with. For example, if we are only focused on the number of students who are proficient- we will look only at that information. Of course, the students in our school may not have grown significantly, but by not looking at growth, we will think we are doing a great job. The article Continuous Improvement: It Takes More Than Test Scores does a good job pointing out that we tend to only look at test scores as data. There is a lot more data out there that could give us important information in our decision making, but we choose not to look at it. In order to be truly data-driven, we have to look at a variety of data and recognize that there are many possible interpretations of that data.
It’s not a question of whether the data “lies” or “tells the truth.” Data comes in many forms and with many limitations. All data, quantitative and qualitative, are collected within a set of procedures and parameters, which are detailed in academic studies. However, data presented in our daily lives are often sited without reference to context. The numbers, graphs, and charts mean nothing without context, interpretation, and analysis.
I think data can and should inform decisions, but we must consider the context in which it was gathered and in which it will be used. Even the data collected in the clinical supervision procedures (from Veitch’s class) is prefaced by a pre-conference. This allows parties to analyze the data in the post-conference with a shared understanding of both the methods and purpose associated with the data collection. Data assists in decision-making but only if it is considered with the contextual factors surrounding its collection, interpretation, and analysis. Data can reveal truths about our schools, but it can also paint inaccurate pictures (“lies?”) if not contextualized. The true strength of data driven decision-making resides with the people who choose to use the data in meaningful and applicable ways.
While I agree with the first part of the statement wholeheartedly, I disagree on the latter. Data, in my opinion, is one of the most important pieces to consider when making a decision and numbers are to some degree objective. No matter how many time you add two plus two you will always get four. When two different groups may use the same data results to justify vastly different solutions to the same problem meanwhile the solutions end up being complete opposites of one other. Did someone use data that lied? We can always spin data in any way that we want to get to the results that we desire. Politicians have been doing this sort of thing for years. Unfortunately, once we start to interpret data through our own lens we begin to add some level of bias to how it is disseminated. Our immediate impulse is to try to explain away the causes of low performance not matter what subject we are examining. Whether the data lies to us or we lie to others about the data, it never really tells the whole truth. Like I said before I believe it to be a very important tool when making decisions, I just don’t agree that all decision need to be made based on data with the presumption that data is inherently truthful.
I agree that data does not lie. However, people are really good at using data to skew things in their direction. What data are included, what data are left out, what context were the data collected in, how the data were organized, and how the data were displayed are all ways of using data to show things from a specific point of view. I think it is really important to use data, but make sure you have a conversation about it. If you are using data in a faculty meeting, allow your staff to ask questions. Maybe they are unclear about what the data shows or maybe they feel that for some reason the data is flawed. When everyone understands what the data means, where it came from, and how it was collected you can begin to have conversations about its implications. Once you have established the merit of the data it can be extremely beneficial to a school. I think sometimes teachers hide in the ambiguity of education. Teachers can fly under the radar or burrow themselves in mediocre teaching if they are never held accountable. Data brings everything to the forefront. There are certain parts of data from which teachers cannot hide from. I’m not saying data should be used to “get” teachers. I think data should be used to identify problems, so solutions can be developed. Data makes teachers accountable, and teacher accountability is one of my major issues with schools.
I take issue with that position for a couple of reasons.
First, I'd say that though numbers don't necessarily lie, they also don't always tell a coherent story on their own. It's the way numbers are interpreted that bends their objectivity to one party's will or another.
I'd also point out that numbers aren't the only kind of data to look at. Qualitative data can be very useful in crafting a narrative that is a little more coherent than a lot of test scores or demographic data.
As much as I believe in the importance of measuring student and teacher achievement, I think we have a long way to go in developing measurement tools that give consistently accurate and unbiased information about our schools.
I do think that using "objective" data is a good way to make a case for or against a decision, but for those leaders who are "all about the data" and little else, I worry they may be missing an important, human part of the decision making process.
Overall, I disagree with this statement, however, the statement “the data just don’t lie” is true. Numbers do not lie, they’re not people. People, however, can lie, or at the very least, they can most certainly manipulate. Given 10 people and 1 set of data, I guarantee you’ll get ten different interpretations and conclusions drawn.
On another note, I get very frustrated when we discuss data as if the only valuable data comes in the form of numbers (especially from standardized testing). I actually completely agree that data is an extremely valuable tool, but it needs to come from multiple sources and be put into some type of context in order to have meaning.
Wendy....You got it girl! My position is exactly what you said....too often data is interpreted without knowing the true context of which it was actually collected. I do not believe you should make decisions based on any one set of data. I also believe that you can't ignore the collected data either. You must understand the context of the information before it can drive a decision.
One year our 5th graders took a benchmark in science on a Motion and Design unit. The majority of the students missed a question that referred to the way a top spins. Well if you are in your 40s and 50s and you created the test question of course you know which type of top they were referring to. On the other hand, if you are 10 and you play video games...what the heck are they talking about? The students missing that question did not mean we had not taught the material related to that concept, it only meant that the test creators had not considered their audience. As a result, the informed decision was to ignore that part of the data and complain to the test makers.
No matter how you feel about testing data, it probably will be with us throughout our careers so we need to make sure we don't see it as the truth and nothing but the truth.
I agree with many of my peers. Data is important and when used correctly, drives instruction. However, often times we look at data as an end result, instead of something that is continuing. I also think the type of data that is collected is equally important. As educators, we have probably taken and given several learning style inventories; yet we test one way. This has been an ongoing debate for several years. I believe that data is valuable, as long as it drives instruction. It should not only evaluate, but modify or improve instruction.
Numbers are objective, and "data just don't lie." Nonetheless, how we process, analyze, and interpret the data is subjective.
I agree that numbers don't lie. They are inanimate. But they can be manipulated and often mean very different things to different people. It takes me back to the line from the movie Dumb and Dumber, when the girl told him there was "a one in a million chance" she would date him. His response was, "So you're saying there's a chance?" Coming from a school that was shooting for 60/60 last year to a school that is around 93% proficiency has enabled me to see how outsiders view numbers. When I told a current co-worker we were shooting for 60% proficiency last year, she was appalled that the state would set our goal so low. When I began to explain some of the issues the students have to deal with and the types of environments these students live in, the numerical "data" soon lost prominence as the single most important criteria fro judging our school. Rather, it became only one piece of a bigger picture. She soon realized why the staff was so excited when it seemed that we were going to have 60% of our students on grade level. Whereas 60% proficiency at my current school would constitute one of the biggest failures since the push for accountability began.
I agree and disagree with this statement. I believe that data is important in enhancing student learning, addressing the needs of individual students or groups of students, and influencing teaching practices in the classroom. However, on the flip side of that, data does not necessarily guarantee the right decision will be made or that improvements will be made.
Usually, when we hear data-driven, it refers to standardized tests. Our schools have become obsessed with results, results, results. The problem is that data is misused and misunderstood. In the wrong hands, it can be very dangerous. For example, our country has a negative side when it comes to using testing data. Testing data has been used to define black and brown people as intellectually inferior. Of course, this is not true, but people blindly trust data and tests.
All in all, schools should be data-informed, as Deborah Meier stated, and not data-driven. Data-informed schools are a real strength.
I believe that data initiates decision making. Is it the real strength? I’m not sure. If a team was to sit down, look at some data, and notice a pattern that showed economically disadvantaged students always performing low, then it’s a no brainer that something needs to be done. I think the data forces us to look at what’s going on. We should not analyze the data and then begin to make immediate changes. Some investigation needs to be done based on the patterns noticed. We, as administrators, need to be in the classroom observing teachers and investigating the current programs to see why the EDS are scoring low.
I believe there are other factors that should guide our decision making, but the data is what first gets our attention. It’s what begins the process of looking at needed change for higher academic achievement. Yes, the numbers are objective but the numbers don’t tell us exactly what should be done. The real strength comes from those who are able to take the data, investigate, and then decide on needed improvements.
Data is critical to sound decision making in the school improvement process. The numbers are powerful and can reveal brutal facts about a school or the district. The numbers do not lie. However, the numbers can be manipulated to communicate false impressions.
Data can be analyzed and interpreted to reflect any number of agendas. In the end, it is meant to be used as a way to inform instructional practices. The closest a classroom teacher gets to that is the analysis included with each student's test score report. A teacher can actually look at that and tell what skills he/she needs to do a better of job of teaching. The individual analysis can also provide insight into each student's learning and mastery. The data that is shared most often with faculties does not provide straightforward indicators as to how a school should proceed, just that we need to pull up math or reading scores. The more formative an assessment process is, the more it creates effective change in the classrooms.
28 comments:
I agree that data is a real strength in the decision making process of a school's decisions. As mentioned: "the data just don't lie."
I can see this being the biggest aid for a principal when dealing with a staff that is "stuck" in their old ways and is resistant to change, or even the staff of a good school that does not feel that it needs to change. LIke you said in class Dr. Graham, you noticed there was a discrepancy in the science grading that the teachers did not believe was there. After you showed them the data, it was fairly simple for them to see and you were able to pull them on board with the changes that needed to be made. I am not saying it is the cure all for each and every decision that is made, but it definitely helps put things in perspective.
Dr. Veitch also has been instructing us that we should use data when evaluating teachers due to the fact that it cannot be argued. It is a measurable system that takes the emotion out of the evaluation and does not create a situation where it looks like the principal is out to get the teacher.
As an administrator working with a younger staff, it is good to show them data to drive the instruction they are teaching. If you can show these teachers where to find the data and also how to use the data, it could save you time later when you are working through a conference and you can both, knowledgeably, look at the data.
This is somewhat similar to the statement "Figures don't lie, but liars figure." It is my belief that too many educational decisions are based on data and not common sense anymore. Data can be used to support or defend any position thereby making it less influential, in my opinion.
That said, data should be part of the decision making process, but by no means should it hold all of the weight. If our traditional methods of data collection actually communicated fair and diverse information, then we would not be having this discussion. However, we sometimes use data to support initiatives that do nothing to enhance student learning and everything to justify central office jobs. I support common sense...the missing piece of educational data.
While data is a great strength in the decision making process, it cannot be 100% accurate and representative. Research is conducted to give a snap shot of what is going on and what a reasonable prediction could be about a particular matter. With that said, data can be manipulated, which simply means it can lie. I think that data should be a large part of the decision making process. However, I do not think that is should be the only factor. It is important to review the context around a subject, the end goal, strengths and weakness of the current action plan, and key players needed to execute the end goal. Thus, in conjunction with data, all of these components should have equal weight in the decision making process.
I strongly disagree with this statement. I think the data can lie. Well, let me rephrase that. The data is what it is, but the interpretation/presentation of the data comes from the data’s users and may be misconstrued. In other words, the data may be what it is, but the message of the data is conveyed through the lens of the person using the data and that person is most likely operating off an agenda to which they have made the data align.
I’m not sure about anyone else, but I can speak from my own experience and attest to the fact that data can be used to say a lot of things. Often if we’re looking to make a point, we can find data to support our point. So, while I think there is value in having data to make decisions, I also think it is wise not just to accept it at face value. We need to mine the data and consider the presenter’s possible slant(s) as we make decisions based on what is presented to us.
There is real strength in using data to encourage (or demand) change. Data does not lie. A 4% passing rate at a school is a 4% passing rate no matter which way you turn your paper to look at it. The advantage to using data is that you can interpret that 4% passing rate to mean whatever you want. I think that 4% passing rate means we need to pay teachers more so that they will feel more appreciated and therefore work harder at educating children...? I think that 4% passing rate means we should close that school and relocate those students to the surrounding schools (which presumably have higher passing rates)... I think that 4% passing rate means the test needs to be revamped... I think the 4% passing rate means we should fire all the teachers in the school and hire new ones... I think that the 4% passing rate means we should give each classroom a reading intervention specialist and a math intervention specialist... I mean, really, I'm not sure how many more things I could make up that that 4% passing rate mean or should indicate or should lead to, but I could probably go on for a while. That is what gives using data such strength - you can use it however you want and the data will still support it.
Similar to what has been by Andrea, Katrina, Rebecca and Kelly have said, my answer is both agree and disagree. Decisions can and should be data driven. Without data, how can you define what your goal is? How do you know that you have reached your goal? Again, as Thomas and Dr. Veitch have pointed out, data can and should be used to identify and quantify a problem and the extent to which the problem is making an impact. It is often hard to argue with the data, especially when both parties agree to what the data represent. And that brings us to the sticky point. . .
As we know, data can be manipulated. Studies have shown that 90% of data used in 50% of the studies are 85% unreliable. What studies? Who collected the data? For how long was the data collected? And is 90% of 50% of 90% really 41% or did I just make that up? . . . . . Okay, I did just make that up, but you get the point. We like to use data that agrees with our vision, and sometimes, that means the user is dishonest even if the data are not.
I agree with Katrina and support her comment "While data is a great strength in the decision making process, it cannot be 100% accurate and representative."
I believe data has its place in education but it should not be the determining factor when making decisions. Data comes in all forms and conversing with individuals to gather information is yet another way we can collect data and it should also be a factor in making decisions.
Example: A teacher is in a tested subject and is a great teacher. She uses hands-on instruction, facilitates learning and students are producing products in the class that requires them to think and think outside the box. However, she doesn't focus on the test her students are required to take at the end of the year. The data would make one believe that she should not be teaching, but by doing observations and seeing the good work it would be beneficial for her to move to a non-tested subject and create the same learning experience for other students.
I say all that to say data is not the end all be all. It should be a piece of information we use to make decisions that impact student achievement. To me this also applies to Andrea's comment and the idea that we as leaders should use more common sense when making decisions.
Data has become the basis for almost if not every decision made in a school. Does data lie? No. The numbers are what they are. If you want the data to support an idea it can work for you. If you want data to discount an idea it can work for you. I feel it is the interpretation and presentation of numeric information. It is the interpretation of those numbers that can lead to misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the data. Dr. Schainker gave a great example in class the other night. Suppose you have 6 middle schools in a district and the 6th school has the lowest student achievement scores – you might automatically think this school needs help, but when you look at the data, you find 94% of students are achieving on or above grade level. Here is a prime example of how the presentation of data can lead to misunderstanding. School leaders must be aware of the context in which the data is being presented. School leaders need to consider the context, school need, and end goals when using data to drive decision making.
I think that while data doesn't lie, the context with which data are explained can certainly be misleading. Just like two people can look at the same event and tell different stories, the meaning of data that is presented can be deciphered in a number of different ways.
Although data can at times be used and interpreted to validate harmful decisions, data driven decision-making is going to be essential as we aim to improve our schools. The reason: we just can't afford to begin and continue doing things that simply "sound good" anymore. With budgets being scaled down and class sizes going up, the margin for error is shrinking and the consequences of waste are more profound.
We need to make decisions that our data suggest will work. Even more so, we need to have a way to measure the effectiveness of our decisions, so that we know that they did work.
Yay, my first chance to go toe to toe with Andrea (I'm sure this is just the first in many as we move to rule the world)! When using the phrase common sense, just remember that what is common to you may not be common to someone else, thus making sense to you and not them. Make sense!?! ;) I think you would leave a lot of people scratching their heads if you based your school initiatives on common sense. I agree with Caroline that the data may be presented in misleading ways, which may favorably support some back door agenda. I'm sorry to play the skeptic, but I think too many leaders use data to prove a point opposed to directing discussions. In my experience with data presentations, they usually fail to describe the sample population and sample size, as well as contributing factors that may limit the results. 50% of hispanic students are not proficient on the geometry eoc. Does 50% mean more or less to you if there were 2 students in the sample then if there were 100 students? And what if I told you that out of the two Hispanic students one of their mothers was in the hospital the night before the test and when she retook the test she made a 4. So, I will take the stance that data is important when used appropriately.
I agree that data do not lie. However, data can—and are—often presented in a misleading way. The advertisement business relies on this. Facts/data are slanted to the view that puts their product in the best light. In the same way, schools do this. Schools use data in whatever way puts them in the best light; unless they want to show growth, when they may present (read: “manipulate”) the data in a different way to be able to show growth.
Katrina’s point of the data being a snapshot is a great point. I know that many of my students’ EOG scores were not true representations of what they knew. Many students could not make that transition from the learning environment of the classroom to the rigid environment of the testing room (no matter how hard I tried to reassure them and make it comfortable). So that snapshot was not really accurate. The data may not be a lie, but it certainly is not always a representation of the reality.
We need to try to look at the data in a more informed way…I hate when principals compare one year’s group scores to the next to show growth. That’s absurd! Instead, we need to look at the same group’s results as it progresses through the grades. THAT data shows growth (or lack of growth).
Bottom line: we do need to use data, but we need to be smart consumers when looking at the data.
I think this is true, but we have to be cautious about our interpretation of these numbers. I think one of the articles we read this week said it best, when it mentioned that some tests only capture what we know at that moment. I may study hard for a math test and remember everything I need to know for that test, take the test, and then promptly forget everything once the test is over. Does that mean I learned the material or just memorized it for that moment? Also, things like sickness, family problems, etc. can affect test scores. Data can be objective, but we can be very subjective.
Also, we have to make sure we are not basing decisions off of one score. If we are going to use data to make decisions about what we teach students then that data needs to be continuous. We can’t just look at an EOG or EOC test and say a child does or does not know something, because those test are summative. Teachers can assess students daily, weekly, or monthly quickly analyze that data and then provide timely feedback to the student and that is when data driven decisions become effective.
Student are not the only ones who are subjective but so are teachers. I am not referring to their moods as much as I am referring to their abilities. Some teachers are ineffective in teaching material. We do have bad teachers, therefore a child can only test on what they know and if a teacher has done a poor job instructing them, then this may be reflected in the data. Data does not lie, but it can paint a skewed picture based on who, when, and how we analyze everything.
I agree with most of the people who have already posted. It is true that the data don’t lie, but it is the way we interpret them that can be different. I love the way Andrea said it- “Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.” I think we can each interpret data in a way that works for us.
I feel that in this world of “data-driven” instruction, we also tend to limit what data we look at so that we can form the picture or solution we are most comfortable with. For example, if we are only focused on the number of students who are proficient- we will look only at that information. Of course, the students in our school may not have grown significantly, but by not looking at growth, we will think we are doing a great job. The article Continuous Improvement: It Takes More Than Test Scores does a good job pointing out that we tend to only look at test scores as data. There is a lot more data out there that could give us important information in our decision making, but we choose not to look at it. In order to be truly data-driven, we have to look at a variety of data and recognize that there are many possible interpretations of that data.
It’s not a question of whether the data “lies” or “tells the truth.” Data comes in many forms and with many limitations. All data, quantitative and qualitative, are collected within a set of procedures and parameters, which are detailed in academic studies. However, data presented in our daily lives are often sited without reference to context. The numbers, graphs, and charts mean nothing without context, interpretation, and analysis.
I think data can and should inform decisions, but we must consider the context in which it was gathered and in which it will be used. Even the data collected in the clinical supervision procedures (from Veitch’s class) is prefaced by a pre-conference. This allows parties to analyze the data in the post-conference with a shared understanding of both the methods and purpose associated with the data collection. Data assists in decision-making but only if it is considered with the contextual factors surrounding its collection, interpretation, and analysis. Data can reveal truths about our schools, but it can also paint inaccurate pictures (“lies?”) if not contextualized. The true strength of data driven decision-making resides with the people who choose to use the data in meaningful and applicable ways.
While I agree with the first part of the statement wholeheartedly, I disagree on the latter. Data, in my opinion, is one of the most important pieces to consider when making a decision and numbers are to some degree objective. No matter how many time you add two plus two you will always get four. When two different groups may use the same data results to justify vastly different solutions to the same problem meanwhile the solutions end up being complete opposites of one other. Did someone use data that lied? We can always spin data in any way that we want to get to the results that we desire. Politicians have been doing this sort of thing for years. Unfortunately, once we start to interpret data through our own lens we begin to add some level of bias to how it is disseminated. Our immediate impulse is to try to explain away the causes of low performance not matter what subject we are examining. Whether the data lies to us or we lie to others about the data, it never really tells the whole truth. Like I said before I believe it to be a very important tool when making decisions, I just don’t agree that all decision need to be made based on data with the presumption that data is inherently truthful.
I agree that data does not lie. However, people are really good at using data to skew things in their direction. What data are included, what data are left out, what context were the data collected in, how the data were organized, and how the data were displayed are all ways of using data to show things from a specific point of view.
I think it is really important to use data, but make sure you have a conversation about it. If you are using data in a faculty meeting, allow your staff to ask questions. Maybe they are unclear about what the data shows or maybe they feel that for some reason the data is flawed. When everyone understands what the data means, where it came from, and how it was collected you can begin to have conversations about its implications.
Once you have established the merit of the data it can be extremely beneficial to a school. I think sometimes teachers hide in the ambiguity of education. Teachers can fly under the radar or burrow themselves in mediocre teaching if they are never held accountable. Data brings everything to the forefront. There are certain parts of data from which teachers cannot hide from. I’m not saying data should be used to “get” teachers. I think data should be used to identify problems, so solutions can be developed. Data makes teachers accountable, and teacher accountability is one of my major issues with schools.
I take issue with that position for a couple of reasons.
First, I'd say that though numbers don't necessarily lie, they also don't always tell a coherent story on their own. It's the way numbers are interpreted that bends their objectivity to one party's will or another.
I'd also point out that numbers aren't the only kind of data to look at. Qualitative data can be very useful in crafting a narrative that is a little more coherent than a lot of test scores or demographic data.
As much as I believe in the importance of measuring student and teacher achievement, I think we have a long way to go in developing measurement tools that give consistently accurate and unbiased information about our schools.
I do think that using "objective" data is a good way to make a case for or against a decision, but for those leaders who are "all about the data" and little else, I worry they may be missing an important, human part of the decision making process.
Overall, I disagree with this statement, however, the statement “the data just don’t lie” is true. Numbers do not lie, they’re not people. People, however, can lie, or at the very least, they can most certainly manipulate. Given 10 people and 1 set of data, I guarantee you’ll get ten different interpretations and conclusions drawn.
On another note, I get very frustrated when we discuss data as if the only valuable data comes in the form of numbers (especially from standardized testing). I actually completely agree that data is an extremely valuable tool, but it needs to come from multiple sources and be put into some type of context in order to have meaning.
Wendy....You got it girl! My position is exactly what you said....too often data is interpreted without knowing the true context of which it was actually collected. I do not believe you should make decisions based on any one set of data. I also believe that you can't ignore the collected data either. You must understand the context of the information before it can drive a decision.
One year our 5th graders took a benchmark in science on a Motion and Design unit. The majority of the students missed a question that referred to the way a top spins. Well if you are in your 40s and 50s and you created the test question of course you know which type of top they were referring to. On the other hand, if you are 10 and you play video games...what the heck are they talking about? The students missing that question did not mean we had not taught the material related to that concept, it only meant that the test creators had not considered their audience. As a result, the informed decision was to ignore that part of the data and complain to the test makers.
No matter how you feel about testing data, it probably will be with us throughout our careers so we need to make sure we don't see it as the truth and nothing but the truth.
I agree with many of my peers. Data is important and when used correctly, drives instruction. However, often times we look at data as an end result, instead of something that is continuing. I also think the type of data that is collected is equally important. As educators, we have probably taken and given several learning style inventories; yet we test one way. This has been an ongoing debate for several years. I believe that data is valuable, as long as it drives instruction. It should not only evaluate, but modify or improve instruction.
Numbers are objective, and "data just don't lie." Nonetheless, how we process, analyze, and interpret the data is subjective.
I agree that numbers don't lie. They are inanimate. But they can be manipulated and often mean very different things to different people. It takes me back to the line from the movie Dumb and Dumber, when the girl told him there was "a one in a million chance" she would date him. His response was, "So you're saying there's a chance?" Coming from a school that was shooting for 60/60 last year to a school that is around 93% proficiency has enabled me to see how outsiders view numbers. When I told a current co-worker we were shooting for 60% proficiency last year, she was appalled that the state would set our goal so low. When I began to explain some of the issues the students have to deal with and the types of environments these students live in, the numerical "data" soon lost prominence as the single most important criteria fro judging our school. Rather, it became only one piece of a bigger picture. She soon realized why the staff was so excited when it seemed that we were going to have 60% of our students on grade level. Whereas 60% proficiency at my current school would constitute one of the biggest failures since the push for accountability began.
I agree and disagree with this statement. I believe that data is important in enhancing student learning, addressing the needs of individual students or groups of students, and influencing teaching practices in the classroom. However, on the flip side of that, data does not necessarily guarantee the right decision will be made or that improvements will be made.
Usually, when we hear data-driven, it refers to standardized tests. Our schools have become obsessed with results, results, results. The problem is that data is misused and misunderstood. In the wrong hands, it can be very dangerous. For example, our country has a negative side when it comes to using testing data. Testing data has been used to define black and brown people as intellectually inferior. Of course, this is not true, but people blindly trust data and tests.
All in all, schools should be data-informed, as Deborah Meier stated, and not data-driven. Data-informed schools are a real strength.
I believe that data initiates decision making. Is it the real strength? I’m not sure. If a team was to sit down, look at some data, and notice a pattern that showed economically disadvantaged students always performing low, then it’s a no brainer that something needs to be done. I think the data forces us to look at what’s going on. We should not analyze the data and then begin to make immediate changes. Some investigation needs to be done based on the patterns noticed. We, as administrators, need to be in the classroom observing teachers and investigating the current programs to see why the EDS are scoring low.
I believe there are other factors that should guide our decision making, but the data is what first gets our attention. It’s what begins the process of looking at needed change for higher academic achievement. Yes, the numbers are objective but the numbers don’t tell us exactly what should be done. The real strength comes from those who are able to take the data, investigate, and then decide on needed improvements.
Data is critical to sound decision making in the school improvement process. The numbers are powerful and can reveal brutal facts about a school or the district. The numbers do not lie. However, the numbers can be manipulated to communicate false impressions.
Data can be analyzed and interpreted to reflect any number of agendas. In the end, it is meant to be used as a way to inform instructional practices. The closest a classroom teacher gets to that is the analysis included with each student's test score report. A teacher can actually look at that and tell what skills he/she needs to do a better of job of teaching. The individual analysis can also provide insight into each student's learning and mastery. The data that is shared most often with faculties does not provide straightforward indicators as to how a school should proceed, just that we need to pull up math or reading scores. The more formative an assessment process is, the more it creates effective change in the classrooms.
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